Where to begin? When the ‘Retake Mass Effect’ ChipIn website went dark, many like myself assumed it was because Child’s Play was being attacked for its connection to the ‘Retake Mass Effect’ movement. I even wrote a post expressing my anger over the idea that someone would even dare to attack a children’s charity. I mean, who would do something so immoral? It didn’t make sense. The problem was that we weren’t being told the full truth about the situation.
For those who didn’t know, the Child’s Play was founded by Mike Krahulik and Jerry Holkins, artists for Penny Arcade. Why is this important? Because everything that follows returns to this point. As I stated in my first article on the ‘Retake Mass Effect’ movement, an employee at BioWare had retweeted comments made by Penny Arcade’s Ben Kuchera, mocking Mass Effect fans who are upset with Mass Effect 3′s endings. From this point on, Penny Arcade continued to take shots at ‘Retake Mass Effect’. For example, Krahulik, who goes by the online moniker “Jon(athan) Gabriel” or “Gabe”, wrote an article saying that upset fans “shouldn’t pretend [they're] the author” as it was BioWare who wrote the story (I know, the nonsensical “games are art” defense, but let’s not get into that here). Despite this, many assumed that they would at least be happy that this movement was raising money for their charity. The problem is, they weren’t.
When it came out that Krahulik and Holkins were trying to shut down ‘Retake Mass Effect’ efforts to raise money for Child’s Play, Actinguy1 went on Twitter and started asking the two why. Only Krahulik responded and what he said was pretty damning. Here’s the full conversation and a link thread at the BioWare Social Network (BSN) where it was originally posted in. Actinguy1 goes by @TheFroats on Twitter. Pay particular attention to the bolded statement.
@TheFroats:
@cwgabriel @TychoBrahe We say, here, free money to go buy sick children toys…and you say NO??? Have you guys lost your God Damned MINDS?@TheFroats:
@cwgabriel @TychoBrahe CP used to be about helping kids and combating negative gamer stereotypes. What changed? You forgot your mission.@cwgabriel:
@TheFroats I don’t know what to tell you man. If you read what Jamie said and still think that way I’m sorry.@TheFroats
I did and I do. If someone says “Support child’s play if you like Kiddie Porn”, shut that down, totally. But a blanket policy?@cwgabriel:
@TheFroats Child’s Play is not a tool to draw attention to your cause. Child’s Play is the cause. That’s our feeling on it.@TheFroats
@cwgabriel It was not a tool to draw attention. It was a tool to fight a negative stereotype…which is why you guys created it, remember?@cwgabriel:
@TheFroats it’s not your tool to fight your negative stereotype. you can not use the charity as a shield.@TheFroats
@cwgabriel It was a tool to fight “our” negative stereotype…the one you created the charity to fight. Gamers. Not ME3 detractors. Gamers.@TheFroats
@cwgabriel Maybe I can’t change your mind. But you were one of the good guys…and you broke my heart tonight. We wanted to help and we did.@cwgabriel
@TheFroats I’m sorry man. I hope me taking the time to talk with you about it at least shows you that I care about it.@TheFroats
@cwgabriel I don’t doubt you care, I doubt that you’re making the right call. Who’s helping the kids, who’s hurting them? Thx for your time.
It’s clear from this exchange that someone is using Child’s Play as a shield, and it isn’t ‘Retake Mass Effect’. Despite having raised nearly $80,000 for Child’s Play, Krahulik wasn’t happy that a movement he disagreed with was getting positive media coverage because it was donating money the charity he co-founded. How else does anyone explain this kind of behaviour? This kind of irrational stubborness is mind-boggling, but that’s not the point is it? He put his own feelings above the needs of the charity. This isn’t the first time he’s done this either. According to his Wikipedia article, Krahulik has a history of using charities as shields.
Krahulik has been in press online, thanks to hostile phone calls from Jack Thompson regarding an email Krahulik had sent. The email was in response to an offer Thompson had made to video game creators about creating an ultra-violent game based on a man whose son was murdered by a supposedly video game-influenced teen. Thompson claimed he would donate $10,000 towards a charity of former Take-Two Interactive chairman Paul Eibeler’s choosing if the game was made (which it eventually was). Krahulik, in the email, said he and fellow gamers had raised about half a million dollars toward charity. According to Krahulik, “Jack actually just called and screamed at me for a couple minutes. He said if I email him again I will ‘regret it’. What a violent man.”
Mike Krahulik, along with the rest of the Penny Arcade staff, later opted to “step in” for Jack Thompson. Thompson refused to donate $10,000 to charity because he considered the game put forth to meet his challenge subpar. He also claimed that his proposal was satirical and not a serious offer. Penny Arcade donated the money in his stead to the Electronic Software Association Foundation with the note, “For Jack Thompson, because Jack Thompson won’t”.
So inappropriate behaviour is acceptable as long as you donate to charity? Regardless of what your opinion of Jack Thompson is, Penny Arcade’s behaviour during their fight with him was far from aceptable. During that scuffle, Krahulik used the Electronic Software Association Foundation like a shield to deflect legitimate criticism over his inappropriate behaviour. To falsely accuse ‘Retake Mass Effect’ of doing the same thing now is blatantly hypocritical.
This story should have ended there. Child’s Play should have released a statement clarifying Krahulik comments on Twitter, apologized for any misunderstanding he caused and thanked ‘Retake Mass Effect’ for raising as much money as it did. Instead, Holkins, who goes by the online moniker “Tycho Brahe,” decided to weighed in, and by doing so, made matters worse. Here’s his statement in full.
You have almost certainly heard of “Retake Mass Effect” by now. One of many grassroots efforts to get a new ending to Mass Effect 3, it’s part community, part online petition, and part (here is where things get complicated) Child’s Play Donation Drive. They have stopped taking donations now partly because they basically won and partly because we don’t know how to feel about this use of the charity.
As the main point of contact for Child’s Play, Jamie has been buried under mail about this situation. Apparently some of the people giving to the cause seemed to think that they were paying for a new ending to Mass Effect. She’s been asked what the goal is, and how much they need to raise in order to get the ending produced. We’ve also been contacted by PayPal due to a high number of people asking for their donations back. This is in addition to readers who simply couldn’t understand how this was connected to Child’s Play’s mission. We were dealing with a lot of very confused people, more every day, and that told us we had a problem.
We have policies in place to deal with direct abuse: we don’t allow companies to use Child’s Play in order to sell more stuff. To that end we do not allow deals like “1 cent of every dollar goes to Child’s Play!” or whatever. But this isn’t anywhere on that continuum! This is a passionate community that formed around one thing, and some of that passion was expressed in charitable giving. I actually support this cause, but I am a pessimist, and I’m thinking about the next time something like this happens – when someone attaches Child’s Play to something we can’t get behind, or leverages your history of generosity and fellow feeling for their own weird bullshit. So, we need to have something like a policy on this. This is the best way I can think to say it:
Child’s Play cannot be a tool to draw attention to a cause. Child’s Play must be the Cause.
Nothing like this has ever happened in the almost ten years the charity has been running, so it kind of threw me for a loop. Thanks for listening.
Where to begin with this? Does Child’s Play or Penny Arcade not have a public relations expert? Do they not understand that by forcing ‘Retake Mass Effect’ to stop raising money for the children’s charity that they are drawing attention to the movement’s cause? This stupidity on the part of Krahulik and Holkins is mind-boggling.
As for the statement itself, who thought releasing it was a good idea? It’s a mess from start to finish. Firstly, Holkin states that since ‘Retake Mass Effect’ “already won” (it didn’t), donations to Child’s Play from the movement have stopped. This is a despicable lie. The “Clicks” section of the “My Stats” page for this blog shows that visitors are still clicking to the ‘Retake Mass Effect’ ChipIn webpage link to donate. Not only this, but as indicated by Robb’s statement, they were told by Child’s Play to shut down the webpage, not the other way around.
Why lie about this though? Because Holkins, like Krahulik, doesn’t like the fact that ‘Retake Mass Effect’ was getting positive media coverage because it was donating money the charity he co-founded. How angry must he and Krahulik be at the idea that ‘Retake Mass Effect’s donations to Child’s Play helped the movement achieve “victory” (once again, it isn’t) by getting BioWare to “change” (actually “clarify”) Mass Effect 3′s endings? Why else make mention of this in the statement if this is not the reason, or at least part of the reason?
UPDATE: Just an addition to this part of the post. Holkins mentions in his statement that “[w]e have policies in place to deal with direct abuse: we don’t allow companies to use Child’s Play in order to sell more stuff.” If that’s the case, how does he explain the charity’s participation in marketing campaigns? This from Child’s Play Wikipedia.
…During 2008 Penny Arcade Expo, Harmonix announced that three songs from the Expo will be made available for download for the Rock Band video game. The proceeds of these three songs will go to the charity…
…In 2010, Epic Games held a vote-by-purchase event between July 29 and September 6 to determine the fate of a character, Clayton Carmine, in their upcoming game Gears of War 3. Gamers voted by purchasing Xbox avatar T-Shirts through Xbox live, or real life t-shirts at the San Diego Comic-Con, with all purchases counting towards the vote.[12] The voting campaign raised over $150,000, all of which was donated to Child’s Play…
In both cases the charity raised money while assisting a video game promotion. I’m not saying it’s inappropriate, it isn’t. Child’s Play was able to raise fair bit of moneny, while Gears of War 3 and Rockband, through Harmonix, got positive media attention which resulted in more game sales. Everyone benefits from that kind of arrangement. My problem is the blatant hypocrisy in saying that the charity he co-founded doesn’t operate a certain way when it clearly does.
I also find hard to believe that many of those who donated did so because they were under the impression that the money was being raised to “buy” new endings for Mass Effect 3. Is there any truth to this claim? Not that I can see. I can’t find anything that suggests ‘Retake Mass Effect’ was being dishonest about their motives for setting up the ChipIn webpage to raise money for Child’s Play. In fact, here is what the “About” section says is the reason for raising the money.
The Retake Mass Effect – Child’s Play donation drive is a community driven effort to bring positive attention to our petition for an alternate ending to the fantastic Mass Effect series. The Child’s Play charity was chosen as a charity started by gamers to provide video games for the patients at Children’s Hospitals all over the world.
We would like to dispel the perception that we are angry or entitled. We simply wish to express our hope that there could be a different direction for a series we have all grown to love.
Thank you for your interest in our project!
Does that sound dishonest to anyone? I don’t think so. As for the amount of money that has been refunded, I can’t find any information about that either. I can say that, at the time I wrote this post, the ChipIn website has raised $79,944.16 from 4112 people. If Holkin wants to claim that “a high number of people asking for their donations back,” I demand that he provide evidence to back up that claim. So is he lying about this as well? I don’t know. I’m willing to believe that there were a few people who were confused as to what they were donating to, but only a few.
Secondly, read the comments from the thread Actinguy1 started to discusses his conversation with Krahulik on twitter. Because of Holkin and Krahulik demanded that the ‘Retake Mass Effect’ ChipIn page be shut down, there’s confusion over whether or not the money they donated is even going to Child’s Play.
Cody211282 – So he is refusing money for a charity because he doesn’t agree with us? WTF
recentio – Wow. PA uses CP to fight negative gamer stereotypes. PA rejects gamer donations intended to fight negative gamer stereotype (specifically: “entitled whiner”). That’s Starchild logic right there. Seems to me it’s okay for them to use it to fight negative gamer stereotypes but not for others. How noble.
Meteor_VII – I’m still confused did they give the money back? If not does it really matter that he ended it. He can’t throw away the fact that money was donated to that charity via the reaction to the ending of this game.
nhcre8tv1 – WHAT? Do the kids still get the help and money, though? That was the number one (and probably only) reason I jumped on this “movement” was because it was actually being productive and not self prioritized. I understand where both of you were coming from but, why would you do this? I donate to charities all the time, including child’s play, and this was just a cool thing to make the movement not pointless and whiny looking (no thanks to that FTC complainer). And did what I read true people ASKED FOR THEIR CHARITY DONATIONS BACK? WTF BRO?
Xivai – They think WE’RE the entitled ones?! What madness and hypocrisy is this! They’re doing this because their vain ego wants their charity to “look” good. But oh **** it if it’s making money for children. I understand in some cases this might be an issue like a donation to support murder or some outlandish one. But this? Because they think we don’t deserve a new ending they’re going to pull the plug on lots of children gaming. Good job. You put the being a douche in the bag.
Could this be a reason for people wanting their money back? It’s not clear. What is clear, however, is that Holkins’ and Krahulik’s hasty actions are, at least in part, to blame for this confusion. Instead of smearing ‘Retake Mass Effect’, Holkin should have made it clear that the money raised would still be going to Child’s Play. Then again, doing so would have prevented him from lying about the movement’s motives for raising the money in the first place wouldn’t it?
There are also a number of comments from people who aren’t happy that they’re being attacked by Penny Arcade for wanting BioWare to change Mass Effect 3′s endings. This is especially insulting to those who have already donated to Child’s Play.
The Angry One – Who the hell cares why people donate, if people want to donate to promote a cause let them.
Stop pretending this has anything to do with using a charity to promote a cause, that’s done all the time. The charities benefit either way.This is the biased fools at PA making it clear that they don’t want to be associated with anything that may jeapordise their relationship with BioWare.
Gabe and Mike are a pair of shills, and they disgust me.
magikbbg – I just wanted to add that its terrible that they ended this donation drive because of “political” reasons. If they don’t agree with our message will they refund our money back? Nope. They just treated us like a terrorist organization then said “thanks for the money though”. I feel really dirty that I gave some money to the cause. I bet that money is gone, if you called childsplay they’d be like we dunno wut retake movement is. lol (jk just being cynical)
Why do I keep getting bad endings since 3-6-12 ??!
dont charities always get used as tools for movements in america? kinda like invisiblechildren to start a war for natural resoucres in uganda
Strange Aeons – I think there’s enough well-justified negativity to go around regarding the ending without trying to turn this into a major issue as well.
I don’t agree with PA’s relentlessly derogatory take on the fan response to the ending fiasco, but they’re not the bad guys here either. They’re just doing what they think they need to do to protect their organization from potential problems in the future, I guess. I can’t pretend to know all the reasons, but it’s their call.
Just be happy that $80000 was raised for a good cause and move on.
rexx1888 – O.o isnt it a bit cross purpose for them to tell us to bugger off, not 2 days they were expounding about how retake was a bunch of whiners that should stfu
still, it was always a bit odd that we had a SPECIFIC charity linked up, it would have made more sense to pool all the cash and then divvy it up at the final goal, like a kickstarter or something, so no charities caught the flack for our ’cause’*
* i say cause like this because im not convinced we are a cause specifically, we are a group of very disgruntled consumers asking not to be taken for a bunch of mooks by big business
Imortalfalcon – Makes sense, I see what he means.
Sure he can be the “bad guy” for shutting down something that is obviously giving money to a great cause, which this is doing, but it’s not the only message in this campaign.
- The message is “Help us change the ending of Mass Effect 3 and support Child’s Play”
- But can also be taken as “Help us change the ending of Mass Effect 3, oh and btw we support a charity so you can’t refuse or else you’re cold hearted.”They saw it as the latter, which any owner of anything like this would see it, unfortunately. It’s just the ‘spin’ of things I believe messed it up. I see where he is coming from because it would seem like we’re using it as a shield — As previously mentioned. There’s no neutral ground here, and they went with the safe option of just ending it because of this ‘spin’ someone could see it rollin’ with.
Now if he -really- stood by his opinion and thinks supporting Retake ME3 is equivalent to supporting Child porn, he should refund everyone who donated their money back.
But I seriously doubt that’s going to happen.
Actinguy1 – I understand those that feel I shouldn’t have been so negative. I’m a human, I have emotions, and when I learned that someone I trusted had done something I saw as a betrayal, I had a knee jerk reaction.
I will continue to support Child’s Play. Unfortunately, I can not continue to support Penny Arcade.
Neow – They can stop accepting the donation from “Retake”, but taking down the page simply rings “We’ve taken your money, but we’re not crediting you for it.”
There are anonymous donors, there are donors that deserve acknowledgement.
I’m not saying they should gave the money back, taking the page down is just a display of unappreciative.
If people are actually asking that their donations be refunded after being slandered by Penny Arcade, I can’t blame them. As for the comments on comparing ‘Retake Mass Effect’ to pedophiles, I haven’t found proof of that Krahulik or Holkins made that kind of statement, but it wouldn’t surprise me if one of them did (do I need to write a post about what was said during the Jack Thompson fiasco?). Regardless of what was said, how does anyone justify attacking a group that’s trying to raise money for a worthwhile cause? Do these two not care that nearly $80,000 was raised for their charity? I guess they’re just incapable of showing humility.
In any event, it is clear to me that if anyone has misused the Child’s Play charity, it’s Mike Krahulik and Jerry Holkins. If the cause is truly important, which I feel it is, it shouldn’t matter who’s donating and why (within reason of course). The problem is that it does to these two. They couldn’t stand the fact that a movement they didn’t support was getting positive media coverage by raising money for their charity. As usual, Krahulik and Holkins will do exactly what they accuse ‘Retake Mass Effect’ of doing, touting their charitable donations to deflect legitimate criticism of their inappropriate behaviour.
From now on I’m going to take the advice of one of the commenters at the BioWare Social Network, Harbinger of your Destiny and change the charity I link to. I’m confident that those who run Fisher House, an organization dedicate to helping military families, do so because they actually believe their cause. It’s a far more deserving charity in my opinion, and, unlike Child’s Play, it’s founders didn’t create it so they could use it as a shield.
HOLD THE LINE!
If you haven’t already liked ‘Demand a better ending to Mass Effect 3′ on Facebook, and you feel as myself and thousands of other Mass Effect fans do about Mass Effect 3′s endings, do it. Also, I recommend supporters of the ‘Retake Mass Effect’ movement go to Fisher House and make a donation. It’s for a very good cause.
UPDATE: I’m hearing that the real reason that Child’s Play wanted to distance itself from ‘Retake Mass Effect’ was that sorting out the confusion concerning what the money was going to, was taking up too much of the charity’s resources. So much so that it was apparently undermining the charity’s ability to operate. I’m having a very hard time believing that.
Considering that ‘Retake Mass Effect’ raised over $80,000 in about two weeks, how is it that a small charity could spend over that amount, in that space of time, dealing with this apparent confusion? Why didn’t Child’s Play solve this problem by releasing a public statement earlier in the charity drive? That would have cleared up the confusion. Also, there isn’t anyone I’ve been able to identify either at the BioWare Social Network or through the movement’s Facebook page that will even admit to wanting their donation back. Could it be, as a number of people have suggested, that those who don’t support ‘Retake Mass Effect’ were calling up Child’s Play and PayPal in an attempt to undermine the charity drive? It wouldn’t surprise me. There are a lot of bad people in this world who have done worse. For example, the Susan G. Komem Foundation website was hacked by Planned Parenthood supporters after the charity pulled funding when it found out that the abortion provider was being investigated by local, state or federal authorities.
Whatever the reason for this mess, I still think that Mike Krahulik and Jerry Holkins handled it poorly. Krahulik’s comments on Twitter and that offensive statement Holkins released made a bad situation worse. Insulting people who donate to your charity, regardless of the reason, does more to undermine the charity’s cause than a little confusion over how funds from a charity drive are used.
UPDATE: atxbomber at the BioWare Social Network raising an intriguing point about Penny Arcade’s relationship with BioWare. Here’s the full quote, including the post he was replying to, with a link to the thread it was originally posted in.
streamlock – This whole mess has really brought to light the unbriddled unprofesionalism of just about everyone of these gaming/mag sights as a whole.
We really really need some professional game reviewers that are also practice professional journalism.
No, correction we need ‘critics’ not more white wash reviewing.
atxbomber – Correct. Even if you take Penny-Arcade’s stance regarding the Retake and Child’s Play at face value, it’s hard not to question whether there is a conflict of interest here, seeing as Penny-Arcade has a prior business relationship with BioWare and EA dating back at least to Dragon Age: Origins.
With the amount of the gaming “press” that then go on to work for developers, or are friends with them, or rely on them for advertising revenue, it’s become incredibly difficult to determine which “critics” are objective in their analysis, and which one’s are actually harbouring alterior motives.
I had forgotten that Penny Arcade had drawn comics for BioWare’s Dragon Age series. As atxbomber suggests, maybe Mike Krahulik and Jerry Holkins had other reasons to distance Child’s Play from ‘Retake Mass Effect’. I doubt though that Electronic Arts or BioWare would pressure them into doing it. If they did and it came out, having stories with headlines like “Game Developer Hates Children’s Charity” would be a public relations nightmare. It’s possible, however, that Krahulik and Holkins did it themselves, fearing that any connection between their charity and the ‘Retake Mass Effect’ movement would hurt their relationship with BioWare. Knowing these two, it wouldn’t surprise me if this was the case.
atxbomber raises another point which he’s absolutely right about. This whole debacle with Mass Effect 3′s endings has demonstrated that game reviewers can’t be trusted to be objective. Very few of them mentioned the endings, let alone discussed how depressing and incoherent they were. As to why that is, there are a few theories, but I won’t discuss them in this post.
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Its interesting that you’re literally now tearing apart the charity you were defending one post ago, because they don’t absolutely agree with your current crusade (doubly so because as I write this, I can see a link on your page to the hysterical ‘HOLD THE LINE! Child’s Play Under Attack post. Ironic that this link appears on a post in which you yourself are the one attacking them). It is likely that yes, CP was set up to try and combat negative stereotypes of gamers, and that perhaps their distance is because they (like many others) feel that the Retake Mass Effect movement is actually perpetuating those negative stereotypes. Speculatively, that may be in part because you insist on using such ludicrously dramatic and aggressive language to promote your cause (the whole ‘HOLD THE LINE’ angle, for starters. You can’t actually pull off the ‘HOLD THE LINE’ mentality of a besieged few at the same time as writing blog posts about how you’re actually the majority, and attacking anyone who suggests you are a ‘vocal minority’, for example).
Anyway, I think its disappointing that your support for Child’s Play has completely evaporated as soon as you don’t think they’re 100% with you on your crusade. It certainly lends some support to the idea that the movement was perhaps using the donation to that charity as a marketing tool, rather than showing genuine support for a worthwhile cause.
Or alternatively, it may be that the wider movement was in fact making a charitable donation out of heartfelt positive motive, and you see yourself as more of an ‘attack dog’ style of supporter, whose job it is to go on the offensive against anyone and everyone who disagrees with you. I would be very surprised to discover that attitude was aligned with the way Child’s Play like to conduct their operations, to be honest.
I can say that having spent hours reading post after post on the BSN about ‘Retake Mass Effect’ and the movement’s desire to contribute to Child’s Play, they apparently care more about those needy children than the Penny Arcade twits do. If those two turned down ‘Retake Mass Effect’s efforts to raise money for Child’s Play because BioWare or EA promised them a huge donation, I could understand that. In fact, I could respect that. Child’s Play is a worthwhile cause and they should do whatever is best for them. The problem, however, is that they put their own feelings above the goals of their charity. That kind of selfish behaviour is disgusting.
As for being an “attack dog,” wrong again. I call things as I see them, that’s it. No one tells me what to write. If I think something important, I write about it. That’s why I wrote a lengthy article outlining how ‘Retake Mass Effect’ should and shouldn’t behave. That’s also why I tore into the Penny Arcade twits for their infuriatingly selfish behaviour. Someone had to say it, and it’s clear that the moderators at BSN won’t let anyone say it there.
I recommend you at least read what I’ve written before commenting again. At least that way you won’t come off like an ignorant twit.
Also on the theme of persecution, you do a whole lot of speculating that Child’s Play is being secretly controlled by promises of donations from EA or Bioware that you have no (or at least have not presented any) any evidence for.
Speaking of disgusting selfish behaviour, you don’t seem to have addressed how this crusade is supposed to leave the rest of the gaming industry once you’ve proven that developers need to be slaves to the whim of everyone with an angry disposition and an internet connection. Are you going to leave it with mass effect, or will your posts over the next year be going after the next game to come out that you’ve got a problem with? I’m presuming you’ve been a fan of video games for some time – have you always had these issues with them? Were you ok with the video games of the past when developers could write their own stories without interference?
I wasn’t suggesting for a second that anyone tells you what to write. To be honest, the fact that you’ve gone on the attack against the ‘founders’ of Child’s Play one post after bitching about people ‘attacking’ Child’s Play indicates very clearly that you’re the only one with editorial control over what you post.
You keep referring to ‘selfish behaviour’ without realising exactly how selfish your own behaviour is, and that you don’t actually speak for the majority of gamers out there (sorry, but you don’t. do some math). Stop with the whole fantasy about how you’re the only one out there speaking the truth (because BSN is apparently silencing everyone else).
I’ve read what you’ve written, more than once. Hasn’t changed my opinion one iota. You would do well to learn that not everyone who disagrees with you is automatically ignorant, nor worthy of insults (if you read my comments again, you’ll notice i’m not attacking you, just your points of view and attitude). Maybe thats why Child’s Play is trying to distance itself from the movement you’re actively damaging.
I have a persecution complex? That’s news to me. I guess daring to raise questions is some kind of problem where you come from right? Pathetic. Speculation is simply that, and with very little information, these questions were already being asked by commenters at the BSN and on various other forums which I found. If it’s being talked about, I’m pretty sure I’m allowed to have an opinion on it.
The rest of the gaming industry? You mean game developers like Bethesda Softworks that actually listened to their fans and release ‘Broken Steel’? No one’s a slave you twit. Game developers produce a product. If gamers don’t like it, they are allowed to complain. In fact, they’re allowed to take their business to a company that will listen to them and give them a product they want. It’s called capitalism, maybe you’ve heard of it. As for writing stories without interference, that dog won’t hunt, not when Mass Effect is a story shaped by the player. Seriously, have you bothered reading any of the posts I’ve written on this. Clearly not, but that’s okay. I don’t expect a twit like you would have the mental fortitude to understand the flaws in the “games are art” argument.
Did I say I wasnt selfish? I said I wasn’t entitled, there’s a difference, but we’ve already established your mental limits, so let’s move on. Also, did I say I spoke for most gamers? No. I said that most Mass Effect fans hate Mass Effect 3′s endings. There’s a different, but once again, you aren’t capable of understanding it. As for math, how big a sample size do we need for the poll to be accepted by you and all the other naysayers? I would imagine that with 3.5 million copies shipped (not sold), that about a million, maybe 1.5 million have sold. From that, what’s a fair sample size for a poll? Polsters like Rasmussen rely on only a few thousand to get a rough estimate as to how the country as a whole is feeling about a particular issue. With over 65,000 people voting in one of the polls, and the results showing that over 97% of those polled want the endings changed, how is it not right to assume those results aren’t indicative of how all Mass Effect fans feel? Once again, I forgot, you’re not that bright.
Say what you will about me, but it doesn’t change the fact that you started this exchange between us by attacking me. If you’re not willing to admit this, than aside from being a twit, you’re a liar too. As for Child’s Play distancing itself from ‘Retake Mass Effect’, I think it’s best for the movement to move as far away from that charity as possible. No use supporting a charity who’s founders are more concerned with their own whims than the needy children they claim to care about.
Just go and don’t come back. I’ve wasted enough time with you already.
Excuse me, but where do I insult the charity itself? This article, in case you weren’t paying attention, was about the charity’s founders. They decided that ‘Retake Mass Effect’s money wasn’t good enough for them and pressured the ChipIn website to shut down its campaign to raise money for Child’s Play. What do you call that? Is it appropriate that the goals of the charity and second place to the whims of its founders? Why not address those points?
As for the expression, “HOLD THE LINE!”, you do realize that it comes right from the first Mass Effect right? Oh wait, you’re not paying attention are you? Why not go back and actually read the first post I wrote about this to understand that much? Call it what you will, but apparently this “ludicrously dramatic and aggressive language” is working. Also, its not about being “beseiged,” it’s about standing up to a larger entity and its supporters and demanding that we get what we were promised. Are you also incapable of understanding that much? Same goes for these comments about the “vocal minority.” It’s a purposeful insult which ignores the fact that, according to every poll I’ve seen about Mass Effect 3′s endings, even IGN’s, the vast majority of Mass Effect fans HATE them.
Why even bother commenting if you’re a) not going to pay attention to what I’ve written and b) insult me for not agreeing with your position? ‘Retake Mass Effect’ is “perpetuating negative stereotypes” how? By raising money for charity? For standing up as consumers and demanding the product we were promised? By bringing attention to fundamental problems in the gaming industry, most notably mediocre efforts by game developers and the gaming media which is far more interested in maintaining its close relationship with said developers rather than being honest about a game in their reviews? Oh yes, truly we’re “perpetuating negative stereotypes” by doing that.
Before attacking me again for deciding to support another charity, why not grow a pair and ask those Penny Arcade twits why they put their personal feelings above the goals of the charity they created? By putting a stop to ‘Retake Mass Effect’s efforts to raise money for Child’s Play, THEY are “perpetuating negative stereotypes” about gamers.
Easy now – you’re making some big calls about my not reading your posts, given that you clearly didn’t read mine very carefully.
I never said you were ‘insulting’ the charity – only that you were attacking it – which you clearly are. Also, charities typically have goals beyond crusades against individual games and their creators – the fact that you started out giving them a donation, and now seem to treat that as a ‘payment’ that means they need to support you suggests you don’t understand how charity works. Its supposed to be a gift given because you agree with their goals and ideals, not a quid pro quo that means they need to support you in future. And guess what? Generally the founders of things tend to control them, and its likely that they have the best interests of the charity in mind slightly more than you do. If they wanted to decrease the association with Retake Mass Effect, its likely because they thought they didn’t necessarily want to be associated with the way you’re conducting yourselves – thats their choice, and not something you should feel persecuted for. Although it seems to me that feeling persecuted (Bioware ‘betrayed’ us) is central to your MO.
When you set up a charity, its goals ARE your goals. And those goals don’t need to be co-opted by the people who choose to donate to them. End of story. So consider those ‘points’ addressed.
Forgive me, but I’ve been up all night writing that last article after the news broke that the Penny Arcade twits were the ones demanding ‘Retake Mass Effect’ stop its funding raising efforts. I might have misunderstood what you were saying, but then again, maybe not.
What’s the difference between insult and attack? Both are aggressive moves, meant to hurt the person or entity on the receiving end. I will restate what I said before, Child’s Play is a worthwhile charity. Is that an insult? The charity’s founders, the Penny Arcade twits, are not acting in the charity’s best interests. That’s an insult directed at the charity’s founders, NOT the charity itself. As for not knowing what a charity is about, what did I say that supports any of your ridiculous statements about how I feel about a) Child’s Play and b) whether or not the charity supports ‘Retake Mass Effect’? I don’t care if people want to continue to donate to Child’s Play, like I have said repeatedly, ITS A WORTHWHILE CHARITY (get that through your skull). That, however, doesn’t mean that I think Child’s Play owes ‘Retake Mass Effect’ for the donations. It also doesn’t mean that I think Child’s Play is betraying ‘Retake Mass Effect’. If anyone is betraying anyone, its the Penny Arcade twits betraying the sick children they say they’re supposed to be helping. That’s okay though right? I mean, according to you, Child’s Play should be all about cartering to the whims of its founders right? Screw the sick children, they’re nothing but a shield to deflect criticism from the Penny Arcade twits right?
As for being persecuted, since when? I’m repeating what upset Mass Effect fans are saying at the BSN. After spending $200+ and over 100 hours playing the first two games over and over again, I also feel a bit betrayed, especially after being promised a satisfying conclusion to the Mass Effect series, and instead getting the exact opposite. Are you now saying we have no right to feel this way? Twit.
Sigh. I’m going to borrow from your original reply and say please read what I’ve said. I didn’t suggest you insulted Childs Play or what they stood for. We both agree that helping sick kids is an extremely valuable thing to do.
What I said was that you were attacking the charity (as you’ve pointed out, you were attacking its founders and their actions in managing it, although i strongly suspect you knew what i meant and were arguing semantics in lieu of an actual point).
The persecution i suggested is based on earlier comments about bioware ‘betraying’ fans, as if the whole series were designed to build you up just so they could let you down, and the subsequent suggestion that people are being paid off to stop supporting the Retake Mass Effect cause.
Of course you have a right to feel this way, just like you have a right to complain about it, and a right to never again buy a bioware game. What i don’t like is the idea that to this group, nothing is more important than getting exactly what you want.
How do you see the game development industry in two years now that you’ve proven that fans need to approve plot points for games or they’ll threaten boycott against the developers?
No, I didn’t know what you meant. I’m half-awake and you come here attacking me for insulting Child’s Play (which I didn’t do) after supporting the charity previously. Explain that one to me.
As for persecution, read what’s being said on the BSN if you’re look for someone with a persecution complex. Many BioWare fans do feel betrayed, and I personally feel that Mac Walters and his writing staff sacrificed a good ending for a memorable one, no matter how bad it was. Myself and others have written at length as to why this was a bad idea. I even link to articles which not only point out the many plot holes that are in these endings, but how poorly structured they are from a screenwriter’s point of view.
Notihng is more important than getting what we want? Go read the BSN posts where commenter after commenter says that “at least we’re doing something good for the children, that’s what’s really important.” Does that sounds like getting the endings changed is THE most important thing to these fans? Have you bothered with that or are you going to ignore what they wrote as well?
As for the gaming industry, what about it? I’m with Total Biscuit on this. If gamers don’t voice their disaproval from time to time and make demands, game developers get lazy. Look at Capcom right now. After years of sycophant praise, they’ve gotten lazy. Explain to me why Resident Evil: Operation Racoon City, like Lost Planet 2, has serious AI issues? Explain to me why Street Fighter X Tekken, like Marvel vs Capcom 3, like Street Fighter IV, has serious balance issues? That’s the result of gamers not demanding better from a company that should be producing quality products. I’m not going to debate every plot point. I didn’t when Dragon Age 2 was release, probably one of the few who didn’t mind it at all. The problem is, however, that Mass Effect 3′s ending reflects exactly what we’ve been seeing from Capcom. LAZINESS. Even if you like the endings (which most Mass Effect fans don’t), how do you defend the fact that the only real difference between the endings is the colour of the explosion? Why should fans who were promised FAR MORE, not be allowed to complain about that?
Sorry, forgot this – its irrelevant where you heard Hold the Line’ or how relevant you think it is. It evokes a besieged few holding out against a large incoming force – don’t suggest that has nothing to do with why you chose it. Or do. You’re either too ignorant yourself to realise the connotation, or you chose it
deliberately, without realising that it doesn’t gel with your whole ‘we’re representing the overpowering majority’ angle. Either way, its not helping your position the way you think it is. If you need to
be told that, maybe you should hold off on throwing out the ‘ignorant twit’ calls until you figure it out.
Tell you what, after we’re finished with “HOLD THE LINE!”, how about you take it? Yeah, that sounds like a good idea. Take that slogan and join an ‘Occupy’ movement. Don’t forget to shout it loud and proud while crapping on a police car, raping a young girl, or while you are getting clubbed by a police officer you tried to beat up. Clearly, you know how to use “HOLD THE LINE!” better that ‘Retake Mass Effect’. I mean, it isn’t like the gaming media is even paying attention to us and making this an issue which BioWare’s co-founder decided to weigh in on right? Oh wait.
Get back under your bridge troll, I’ve wasted enough time with you.
i have absolutely no idea how you’ve made that connection. I have no desire to take Hold The Line for anything, and I find it strange that the guy having a hysterical overreaction is mocking me for crapping on police cars, or whatever. In fact, everything in that comment is so ridiculous that its a shame you’ve already overused ‘Twit’ so much in this conversation. I feel like it would fit nicely in response to whatever your last comment was supposed to be.
Just so you know, people commonly start blogs in order to engage with people who share their interests. Not to shout ‘troll’ everytime someone disagrees with them.
Anyway, more than happy to leave you to it.
As I said, I call them like I see them. The fact that you couldn’t see that I was mocking ‘Occupy’, a movement which portrays itself as the persecuted majority, with your description of me and ‘Retake Mass Effect’ pretty much proves you weren’t paying attention. Should I take more time to explain it to you? Tell you what, I’ll warn you before mocking you again. Would that be better?
Also, you’re wrong. I started this blog as a way to vent my frustrations. If something got under my skin, I wrote a post about it. That’s it. While it is enjoyable to engage in civil discourse with a commenter, our exchanges haven’t been very civil, nor enjoyable. If you want to continue, I will take the gloves off.
UPDATE: That’s it. You’re clearly not listening and you’re getting on my nerves. You no longer have the right to comment on this blog. Now go crawl back under your bridge troll.
I think they had a valid concern. This is a very active, very vocal group with a high profile issue right now. The concern that that would overwhelm the intent of the charity and blur the lines between their charity and this issue is certainly one that I had when donating. The message on that page blurred the line, saying that the donation was a way of getting our voice heard. Many groups will organize and band together behind a charity. Few of them would tie support of the charity to support of the organization. Had it simply been an option to give with an “In Honor Of” attached to the gift, it would have been better, and I don’t think there would be this issue now. But creating a page specifically for members of this group to donate through, and the wording on the page which basically stated that by supporting the charity, you were showing your support for the group, basically it went too far. I think they were right to be concerned about the lines blurring, and that they were right to take the page down. It doesn’t (and hopefully won’t) stop individual members from donating to this worthy charity, but it makes it clear that you are donating to this charity, and not just trying to buy influence with EA for your cause.
I don’t think their concern is valid. This isn’t a polarizing social or political issue, it’s just a video game. Disagee if you will, but there’s a big difference between what you’re saying and what the ‘Retake Mass Effect’ ChipIn webpage was saying. I even quoted the “About” section of the page in this post to show exactly what was said. Also, the numerous news articles about ‘Retake Mass Effect’ charitable efforts made it clear that what the donations were for. I have yet to read anything that would suggest otherwise.
It’s pretty clear to me that the Penny Arcade twits didn’t like that a movement they didn’t support was getting positive media coverage because it was donating money to the charity they founded. There wasn’t even a thank you from them for ‘Retake Mass Effect’s efforts. Instead, the movement was attacked on Twitter by one twit, and viciously smeared in a statement by the other. If the issue was that they were worried about “lines blurring,” a simple statement coud have cleared that up. How do you explain this? Do you condone this kind of inappropriate behaviour?
Clearly, the Penny Arcade twits put their personal feelings above the goals of the charity they created. That isn’t behaviour anyone should be defending.
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God guys,Just read through all your stuff here. NorthernThoughts, That was a well written piece. I think anyone on the hold the line side would say that. What sickens me is the attitude of Bioware and the charity. I had no idea they were linked that close. I would never ask for my donation, It was a gift. Most Retake members would agree to that. But if we ever find out the money didnt go to charity then someone needs to be put in prison!
I dont know what beyondmarathon’s problem is. Who are we hurting, we are not entitled. We just want what we were told we would get, Is that so much to ask?
I spent the entire night Thursday, through to Friday morning hunting down all this information. I have also added stuff and cleaned up other points (I was half-awake when I finished it, so I made mistakes), so that’s it. You really have to know where to look and the BioWare Social Network is a great place to start.
I have to say I was disgusted with what I found. I had JUST, and I mean JUST, finished the previous post when this information started coming out. I couldn’t let it go, so I started writing this piece. I don’t know whether or not BioWare or EA is responsible for this, and I have to say I doubt they are, but it’s really disgusting to see the Penny Arcade twits stoop to this new low. They want to operate a charity? Fine, but they shouldn’t let their feelings on this issue, and it’s a pretty insignificant issue when you think about it, get in the way of raising money for sick children. Adding insulting to injury, they then come out and attack ‘Retake Mass Effect’? Wow… Just wow…
In any event, I think it’s important to keep going. ‘Retake Mass Effect’ now has ‘Full Paragon’, and I have recommended my readers also donate to Fisher House. Since we don’t need the permission of the Penny Arcade twits to give money to these, I don’t think there will be problems. I will keep doing what I’m doing, regardless of what those like beyondmarathon think. If something upsets me, I write about it, and this upset me.
Hold the line friend, and thank you for your comments.
Keep up the good work amigo.
Hold the Line
Brilliant blog. These things needed to be said. I just don’t understand all the support for a game developer who put out an incomplete game out of laziness and greed for DLC sales. I just don’t get it. Furthermore, I don’t understand how they can go so far as to hurt kids by taking away dollars going to them just because they are so fanatic in their desire to support these game devs.
As it stands now, I don’t really see myself buying a BioWare or EA game anytime soon.
I really don’t know what to think of this whole situation, but I don’t blame EA for it. We learned from the “The Final Hours of Mass Effect 3″ that this was a decision that came from BioWare. That’s a creative decision, not something a distributer would care about. If I were in EA’s shoes, I would come down on BioWare like a ton of bricks and demand they give the fans what they want, and if they wouldn’t do that, bring in another team who will. I have to say that this is the first time I even bothered doing this sort of thing. I didn’t complain over Dragon Age 2, nor have I ever spoken out about questionable decisions by game developers. For example, regarding Mass Effect 3, I thought cutting down the size of your team and making most of the characters from the last game non-playable was stupid. I talked about it with my friend, but I didn’t blog about it. This, however, is another story altogether. It’s laziness, and it’s what we’re seeing more and more of in the gaming industry. Look at Capcom, for example, the quality of their games is really slipping, especially the fighting games which aren’t even balanced anymore. EA let’s it go because they don’t see the problem, but BioWare should. “Artistic integrity” doesn’t excuse a poor performance.
What worries me even more is this nonsense about clarifying the ending and giving fans closure. Excuse me? That’s not what we’ve been demanding. I don’t care about paying for DLC as long as I get an ending to the series that I can live with. I would love if they gave us an expansion, like Dragon Age: Awakenings, where we are given a 8-10 hours or more gameplay and an ending like Mass Effect 1 and 2. We should also have the endings we want, a full range of them, depending on the effort we put in. This is Star Wars, not 2001: A Space Odyssey, so they should knock off that “deeper meaning” nonsense.
As for buying another BioWare or EA title, depends. I haven’t touched games since this began, but I’ll get back to them eventually. I’m still thinking about picking up Syndicate, but unless Mass Effect 3′s ending is fixed, BioWare isn’t getting another dollar from me. Swearing off EA is like swearing of Coca-Cola. They produce so much that a boycott of the company is pointless if its only one part that upsets you. It’s up to you though.
Thank you for your comments and remeber to keep holding the line.
A lot of the chatter has been that BioWare didn’t pull these shenanigans until they merged with EA. So while BioWare may be making the decisions, don’t you think that they are attempting to serve two masters, their own vision (which previously was pretty good) and EA’s? All we can do is suggest at this point, unless we have access into their dev meetings.
While I’m not going as far as to proclaim a personal boycott of the two companies, they have instituted in me for the first time, a willingness to check games to see who is developing them. Because I have learned from DA2 (which I did not complain about either), SWTOR and now ME3 that BioWare simply writes and produces very poor games lately.
We don’t see Blizzard doing this. Very excited about Diablo 3…. but then again, I just thought of pandas and WoW.
I think it is because of BioWare’s elevation from a small game developer to a industry giant after being bought by EA. They’re given a significant raise in salary and more resources for their projects, along with the guarantee that when the game is finished, they’ll help with marketing. That drastic a change breeds overconfidence, especially after years of sycophantic praise from “BioDrones” who believe the company can do no wrong. You don’t think all this changed how they view themselves and their projects. Mass Effect 3′s ending just scream egotistic, a point further supported by Casey Hudon’s interview with Digital Trends where he says how they didn’t want the series’ conclusion to be forgetable.
As for the quality of their work of late, I did appreciate the changes in gameplay to Dragon Age. They also gave people the choice as to how you’d play the game. Settings could be changed in the options menu to slow combat down, and if you really wanted the Dragon Age: Origins experience, you could buy the game on PC. As for Star Wars: The Old Republic, it lost me at “pay-for-play.” I’d rather but a new game every month than continue playing a mediocre one. Finally, Mass Effect 3 did so much right that it’s upsetting that the ending is as bad as it is. Sure there are issues, like the small team size, the unnecessary tacking on of gay characters (Samantha Traynor is a decent character, but Steve Cortez is so blatantly gay it’s almost offensive), and the fact that the Virmire survive is absent for too much of the game, but these are minor gripes. Fans told BioWare how to fix the game’s ending, even laying out a blueprint for how to do it. If they refuse to listen, it further shows just how detached they’ve become from their fan base.
As for Blizzard, I don’t know. Yeah, I saw the “Kung Fu Pandas” as well. I’m sure Dreamsworks is readying a lawsuit for when the expansion is released.
P.S. Forgot to address yoru question about Child’s Play and the Penny Arcade twits. I don’t know either, but they seemed pretty ticked off that ‘Retake Mass Effect’ would even DARE to donate to their charity as a way of getting positive media attention. That Twitter conversation said it all.
Though I felt it has it’s moments of feeling bias, I feel it was a well written article. To expand, however, any, if there was, bias was, which is sadly rare these days, supported with evidence and the means to look into it for oneself to form their own conclusions. Good to see that.
I was under the impression upon reaching this article that I would end up reading another one sided opinion about Retake Mass Effect as a whole, the charity being used as a shield by it, and not a shred of explanation as to why Retake Mass Effect supports feel the way they do or choose to start any charity fund-raising. Good to see my impression was dispelled, and early too.
I am of the mind to read articles, that support or disagree, with any particular stance I have on any issues so that I can better understand a situation and come to conclusions of my own. What you have mentioned here definitely puts a different perspective on the Penny Arcade, Child’s Play, and Retake Mass Effect situation; one that I hadn’t considered, especially considering I am not all that familiar with Penny Arcade, aside from a few comics they’ve done, and knowing they exist.
Thank you for the insightful opinion.
Thank you for your comment. I have to say that I was ticked off when I wrote the article, but I did my best to back up everything I said.
‘Retake Mass Effect’ was trying to get good media attention and felt that Child’s Play, one of the better known charities in the gaming community, was the best way to do it. It’s not a bad thing to do, especially since the charity gets a large amount of money for its cause. Win-win right? Well, as you can tell by the Twitter exchange, that wasn’t good enough for the Penny Arcade twits. Using the charity as a shield? I didn’t see any of that, though I did see a lot of people on the other side of the argument attacking ‘Retake Mass Effect’ for its charity drive.
As for the Penny Arcade twits themselves, I was pretty surprised at what I found with a quick Google search and five minutes on Wikipedia. I know they’re supposed to be respected in the gaming community, but that’s it. I mean, “I Hate Jack Thompson” t-shirts? “Dickwolves” rape jokes? Cease-and-desist orders from American Greetings Corporation? Definitely not the “angels” people would like them to believe.
In any event, hope you continue reading my blog. I’m going to see about writing another article soon, but in a day or so. I’ve got to take a break for now though. Been burning myself out trying to keep up with everything that’s been happening since the backlash over Mass Effect 3′s endings started.
Great article man. If those guys pulled the plug on the charity drive because of where the money came from, I wonder what they’re gonna do with it? If it doesn’t go to Child’s Play, or ANY other charity, someone needs to go to jail for stealing $80,000 USD.
I’m pretty sure Child’s Play is getting the money. I doubt they’d do anything that stupid with everyone now paying attention to them. What I don’t like is that the ‘Retake Mass Effect’ charity drive was bringing in a lot of money and then we get this lie about how Child’s Play is having problems dealing with a confusion as to how the money is being spent. I posted the comments from the Penny Arcade twits, the reason was that they didn’t want Child’s Play “used as a shield.” Yeah, it’s there shield to use right? They’re the only ones who get to hide behind it. Seriously, after doing a little bit of research on these two, that charity is nothing but a shield used to deflect criticism of their nonsense. Look up “Dickwolves” to see what I mean.
Anyways, thank you for the comments.
I can see why this particular page has poor ratings, it’s full of shit.
Thank God I can block pages.
Thank God? Your Facebook profile says you’re a “GODLESS COMMUNIST,” so clearly I’m not the one who’s “full of shit.”
Also, believe what you want, but Child’s Play Jamie Dillion admitted to Forbes’ Dave Thier why they actually distanced themselves from ‘Retake Mass Effect’. (Hat-tip to Gaming Blend’s William Usher)
So who’s “full of shit” again? Pathetic twit…